Anonymous
Hello, everyone. I just want to encourage anyone that wants to talk. Former or current OALCers. This is a place where you can post/inquire anonymously. Please feel free to write comments to start discussions that you want to have here.
God Bless!
posted by Left the OALC at 10:03 AM
27 Comments:
Love the new look!
I've always said and acted like I beleived when I would attend the oalc church but lately alot of unanswered questions have aroused my curiosity not just about the church but about christianity in itself. There are so many versions of the bible, how do you know which one to follow. And if the bible was written back when no one could even read that shows how illiterate the person who probably wrote it was. How do you know that the bible isn't just a bunch of made up stories revised overtime? I know it's based on faith, but how far can that take you? There's no proof of any of this. In the Prince of Egypt story, it talks about all of these horrible things that happen to the Pharoh by God so he would let his slaves go. But what kind of Almighty God would kill innocent children to save his slaves? Why didn't God just appear to the Pharoh himself? Back to the oalc why is it that their church only exist in a couple cities in the world? They believe everyone outside the church is not believing, how are they suppost to believe in the church if they live in Australia?!?! I don't think that is fair. Some people would say that they holy ghost visits you once, and whether you choose to follow it is your choice. Well if it visits you in Africa do you think you are gonna buy a plane ticket straight to Battle Ground Washington and go straight to the church. It just doesnt work like that. I rarely meet people who have converted from "worldly famlies". Everyone in the church was born into it.
Good for you. You are asking yourself about the OALC and the nature of God. Don't be afraid to continue following these questions wherever they take you, because you can trust the Truth to reveal itself, both about the OALC and Christianity. The Bible is most certainly a collection of stories. It is not God. It points to God.
My personal belief is that the Bible is much more than a collection of stories. It is the inspired Word of God. "All Scripture is God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16). I believe the Word of God (the Bible) is the primary means by which God generates saving faith in Christians. I believe it makes us "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Timothy 3:15), and it equips us for "every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17).
To the anonymous OALCer above with unanswered questions-- keep looking for those answers! :) Just like you, I dressed and acted the part on Sundays, but in my heart, knew something was very wrong... But I've decided it's not actually Christianity that's wrong, it's the OALCs belief that they ARE "the Christianity".
As far your question about Bible versions, look back at the posts here from Januuary 23 for a little more perspective there. But pick up your Bible (NIV, KJV...) and read; give Him a chance to work faith in your heart. In the end, it won't be the church you attend that saves you, it will be your faith in Jesus Christ.
God Bless!
I came across this sight by accident & was quite interested in all you have had to say. I am of AP faith also just a different branch, having lived in WA state for sometime we were exposed to some of who your people were, I sense a spirit of anger in some of your responders & I can understand as Satan will cause all kinds of problems when he knows someone is coming to the truth. The core issue is a lifestyle becoming religion & often we put our preferences into convictions I think some of the elders who lead will have alot to answer for on judgement day God help us. The most important thing is a personal relationship with Christ. Do you know Him? Does He know you? Oh the perfect love He has... if we could grasp the whole of it we would not get caight up in all these issues. If you have courage to stand alone for truth in a Godly way with love God Bless you! As far as versions of the bible I think we need to pray for discernment on which to use also, "the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." God clearly states in His living word that he will not start a work without finishing it! Praise His Holy Name! My heart has been burdened for your people. Godbless all of you & know that if we knock it shall be opened to us & if we ask we shall recieve if we seek we shall find it. with Love in Christ, a sister
Hi It's me again, I checked out extoots & read oversome of it, very interesting... I guess I have an interesting background as I come from an A.P. church on the eastcoast & my husband is from another branch in upper MI, they are the Finnish Apostolics I believe so we have tried to mesh both of these into our family life. I never knew how much of a difference in our walk there actually was until we had the opportunity to live in MI for a awhile this was the hardest year of my life. It was so amazing to me see how his people were. It could take days to explain all of it. On one hand they are a fun, happy group & at first excepted me warmly, but as I began to see how little living christianity there actually was I started to question them & was told not to judge, not to read the word on my own as I may get the wrong ideas, if I went to communion & got "blessed" I was part of the "church" I went for a whole year without communion. No one knows simple Bible history, no one has answers. As long as you don't do a few things you are in. Ohhh, I get frustruated thinking about it when we moved away my daughters friends were like, "you can't move there isn't the church there" She said, "Yes there are lots of churches." I think my husband has had a huge work done in his life to walk away from that he is basically excommunicated by his own family. While we lived there people would greet him & not me as if to prove a point? I have read some on the Amish & I think some of the A.P. churches are very similar to the structure they have. The Bible says,"my people perish for lack of knowledge" I think we all need to get into the word & allow God to do His work in us. In His Name, A sister in Christ
This is to Boys in Heaven:
I believe I was raised in the church your husband was from. I have since left. I know how dificult it is for outsiders. Especially ones that come thinking, heaven forbid, that they are Christians with out the Finnish or First Apostolic Lutheran Chruch. My husband came from a Lutheran background but of course was considered an "Unchristian" by most of my family. He endured the God's Peace, God's Peace, hi & handshake for him, & God's peace to the next person in the room. It took me many years to leave this "cult" and grow up and learn who Christ REALLY was and what a Christian is.
It was a long journey but fully worth the struggle to get here! I tell people that I was raised like the Amish but with cars and electricity!
If there were 3 cousins that were married to your brothers-in-law, then I'm J.A.'s sister.
Your sister in Christ.
This is aimed at anom. wow you have me confused... how do you know who I am? I am assuming J.A. is a woman married to my brother-in-law? So you to know what it is like to walk on the other side hey? I have a heart for his people {my husband's} if they knew the truth the truth would set them free... I don't know all the answers but I do know a lot of people are lost & have no desire to be found. I think if anyone gets to close to the heart they get scared. You are sort of right on the amish thing if all it took was following a few rules & being with certain people I guess it would sort of be easy. The new Luther movie is out now & I encourage all of you to watch it, it makes me wonder what he would think about all of this? As the whole lutheran faith started with Luther standing alone just looking for truth. Religion is NOT christianity. No wonder the word says to pray without ceasing... A sister in Christ
Boys in Heaven
I really recognized you by your "Boys in Heaven". You never knew how I prayed that God would comfort you and your family. I am very fond of our brother-in-law A.A. and really thought he was seeing the truth about Christianity. If you would like to correspond with me directly you could ask AA for JA's sister CC's email address.
For all of the other readers,
There really is no words to describe what this woman went through. The Finn Aps are so certain that they have the only "living and true faith". As upset as I get with them I have to remember not to be angry at their judgment of others. For some reason their eyes have not been opened. They are not being judgemental out of meaness but out of a total ignorance. I have several relatives that are preachers in this faith. I just can't understand how they can read the Bible and get such a skewed translation of it! But anyone raised in these Apostolic churches knows how fearful folks are of any new ideas. They are also so fearful that searching is showing a lack of faith. It is a very frustrating thing to know the truth and they can't or won't see it. To feel their judgement because you try and explain true faith and the work of our Lord to them. I have a son who is very angry about his Apostolic upbringing. He was pretty much left out because my husband wasn't an Apostolic. He hasn't grown enough to pray for those that hurt him instead of being so angry. Someday I hope he can find peace.
One of the Finn Ap ministers once made a comment in a sermon about when we get to heaven we may be suprised at who else is there. A very insightful comment.
On the subject of the big split of the 70's. I really never understood all of the issues. I was too young. So i just went along with my parents and most of the relatives. I really think their claims of issues of doctrine were baloney. I think it boiled down to male egos and who wanted to be "king". Because if the forgiveness of sins is the only issue that counts, then why the squabbles if all believe in forgiveness of sins?
just my 2 cents
Can anyone tell me when (and why) the Old Finnish Apostolic Lutheran Church in Brush Prairie and the Apostolic Lutheren Church in Hockinson split?
I am not sure when that the split in WA happened I do know my grandfather has siblings in the First born church so I would guess sometime in the mid century. I think the heritage we all share is pretty amazing, & if they could all be one voice it could be a powerful thing in the right spirit. The way it is now is just tearing down & apart a people.
If christianity was about just getting your sins forgiven we would never need a Savior. Christ was & is the only way to eternal life but I think in alot of AP churches He is set aside or made to be this distant figure. If we could know His great love for each of us we then could know true joy. I am a mom & I think sometimes of the depth of my love for my little ones & how much more Jesus loves us & I stand in awe. We all need to search the word all the answers are written,in Psalms 119:89,90 it says"For ever, O Lord thy word is settled in heaven.
Thy faithfullness is unto all generations....Praise God for His faithfullness.
I also have a prayer request our oldest daughter is leaving next week on a missions trip to Guatamala with a group of other young people they will be holding a dental clinic there & I ask for prayer that Gods hand would be over them & they can be a voice for Him. Thank you, Godbless all of you, A sister in Christ.
a message to boys in heaven: We ARE a powerful voice. I believe that shareing our experiences helps us understand our past. By telling our angers, fears, and pains, we aren't trying to tear anyone down--we are trying to recover from a childhood that for many of us was very strange indeed.I have been out of the church for 45 years. Even though I had continued to attend church for a few years, I can tell you exactly when it was I "left" spiritually. I was riding in the back seat of my parents car and driving through Minniehaha. I was thinking about church and wondering how it could be that only this little group of people was saved, and the rest of the earth lost. It just hit me--"It isn't true!" I never again believed it--and I was so young. The Lord was right there with me, giving me direction.
I hope my comments last time haven't caused offense!! I meant only the ap people as a whole as it is a large group of people I know WE can be & are a powerful voice. How come alot of AP seem to be so stuck as far as a walk goes? I know the firstborns very much go by what the elders say. We just had a quick week out in Battleground WA there is a large firstborn church there actually 2 of them so it is interesting to go back & see how much like a cult they truly live.I think God has a bigger plan actually I know He does for me & mine. I don't think we can box in living Christianity. Love in Christ
I too, was of the First Apostolic, and now that I'm no longer a part of that sect, I thank and praise Him, for giving me the strength to leave it,where I have found liberty in Christ. My advice to both 1st and Old Ap's is to read your Bible, pray to God to show you the truth, He will. And NO!, you're not the only ones that's going to heaven, I'll be there!
Love in Christ.
What is the difference between the 1st Born Apostolic and the Old Apostolic?
My understanding is that "the firstborn" is the English translation of the Finnish word for the group that is the same as the Old Ap. Lutheran . . .
To Boys in Heaven... and all...
I think you would find this interesting... http://forums.delphiforums.com/ALChurchForums
A Lady from your husband's branch started it, but its mostly attended by members of our branch. I think exoalc has been there. (you haven't been there for awhile, did you like it?)
Boys in Heaven ... the host of the forum would really be interested in your point of view, seeing as you have experienced both churches.
Anyway, I hope I haven't butted in where I don't belong.
God's Blessings to you all....
Hello Everyone, it's been awhile. Thanks for the web site anon. It's sort of hard to stay unknown huh? I am always suprised that people know who I am. To exoal, I know what you mean about time I too am a busy mom so my days fly me by. I have a question to put out there, what are the differences between all the AP churches? Does anyone understand any of it? I am interested in comments. Thanks in advance & May God keep all of us...In christ, BoysinHeaven
Hello everyone, Again someone knows me...weird Lyra? I must know you too. Did you read all the blogs? If you did you would know how I came here. I have really been bothered about something, I recently spoke to my sister-in-law & we ended up talking about "the church" & so I asked her to be up front with me if I asked her some questions & thankfully she was willing so I shared with her my heart for her people & asked if she ever wanted more as far as christianity goes & she said no. Then I asked her if she were to die is she completely confident she is going to heaven & she said 100% I said why? because you know Christ as your savior or because your sins are forgiven & she answered so fast I am still amazed that she was going to heaven because her sins are forgiven. Wow. Also I asked her if she felt that other church going people could be saved & she said well they preach that there is only one true church so I would have to say no. I said that means the church of Christ!! Not a building....I wanted so badly to get into her head & dig more but she has no desire to learn more or for growth she said my mom& dad went all their lives & they were good moral people...but there are lots of good moral people out there but more importantly do they know our Jesus?? I am doing the bible study "A woman after Gods own heart" And it really is opening my eyes to what we are supposed to be as christians, after Gods own heart do we truly know what that is? Complacancy is not good enough, just being good people is not good enough, being Apostolic is not good enough!!! Again I quote "my people perish for lack of knowledge." Obeying God is a life change & not half way. Look at Saul, he was a powerful king chosen by God himself! And still he didn't obey with all of his heart only partly & God took his kingdom away & Chose little David instead, David did not lead a great testimony in a lot of ways but he was a man after His fathers heart & always went to Him as we should. Anyway enough of my goings on but pray for our people. Until next time may God bless all of us. In Christ, BoysinHeaven
Hello all! I have a question for all willing to answer..i need some advice. I'm dating someone from the oalc and its causing a lot of argument between us. I'm not any specific religion..although I have a strong belief in God. I've been asked on many occasions to come to the church on sundays...but i just dont believe i should have to put on some "costume" to go. I also dont believe that i'm any less christian for owning a televsion or for wanting to live with my significant other before we get married. AM i wrong..should i just give it a shot?
To anonymous above with a question. I agree you're not any less a Christian for owning a television. It's what we choose to watch on it that tells us how our Christian walk is going. As far as living with someone before marriage, that's definitely not appropriate Christian behavior. The wonderful thing about Christ is that He came to save every one of us. Every one of us will be a sinner until the day we die (or until He returns, whichever comes first). But as Christians, we are to be repentant when we sin and do our best to turn away from it. Pre-marital sex is a sin. We should do our best to avoid it. But if we do sin in this way, we should try to repent and not do it again. Living with your significant other before marriage would seem to indicate that you're not repentant of that sin.
As far as visiting the OALC w/your significant other, it would certainly give you insight into what the church is like. But if you are looking for a healthy, Bible based church, you'd better keep looking. I believe the OALC has the purest of intentions. But they have allowed their preachings to become based on the word of man (Laestadius and the elders) instead of the Word of God.
God's peace and blessings to you!
I appreciate the insight and thank you. I'm still torn as to what I should do though. I really would like to start going to church on sunday's however I agree that the OALC may not be for me. Not only for what it may teach..but again..I dont believe I should have to wear something over my head and no makeup. Thats not me being myself and I dont like the thought of pretending I'm something that I'm not. But I also dont want my boyfriends family to dislike me. Still confused.....
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I don't know when this post was, I just found it. I would advise the above to be very careful about even starting to pretend to be someone you aren't. My husband goes to the oalc, we have been married for many years now, and I NEVER pretend to be something I am not. It is easy when your dating to do things out of what you think at the time is 'love'. Trust me, it changes very fast when you live it 24 hours a day. It takes strong personalities, and I do mean, strong, to deal with the everyday things that come up. I would never want to go through the first 5 years of marriage, no more than that, again. It was daily arguments. I had a deck of cards that I played when my husband was gone to work, and hid when he was home. It is not easy to be a 'pretender' and it is not fun to fight about things on a daily basis. It is not fun to be with his family and know I am a 'heresy' in their eyes and always will be. I am sure they pray for me to change as much as I pray that God would open their eyes. It has not been easy and I would not advise ANYONE from different churches to marry. I can speak for myself as I live it. I can also speak for others I have seen that come and ask for advice AFTER they get married. There are many things that you don't even realize since you don't live in the same house together. I just asked my nephew, who is dating someone from another church, where will the children be raised? He said in mine of course. Well, that is easier said than done. She feels the same way. There are other things, since you have stated that your boyfriend is oalc:
What kind of pictures can you put on your walls and are the curtains to frilly?
When there are family gatherings, and it is a sunday, will you wear a dress to the beach? They wear them ALL day on sunday, no matter where they are.
Do you cut and curl your hair? That is a no no, and you and your husband WILL fight about that since that is an outward appearance.
And jewelry, NO jewelry, some even think a diamond in a wedding band is wrong.
Can you live with the fact that if you don't change to their ways, you will be a heresy forever? And passed by many of them when they greet him and not you?
Do you want a white wedding dress with all the trimmings? Fist, you will have a fight about having to get married in the oalc church, BUT, if you haven't changed by then, you can't anyway. You can get married at home and have the reception in their walls. And if you DO get married in their walls, you will have to wear a hyvee, as will all of your bridesmaids.
Since I have been married, I have lived with these and other countless daily struggles. It is not easy. I hope and pray that you see this and MANY others that are dating. I live it, have been living it, and have been called in the middle of the night by others who are living it. My heart goes out to you, I know what it's like when you are dating and the stars are still in your eyes. I didn't think back then that we would have these problems that some tried to talk to me about. Dating is easy, you go home at night, when you are married, there is no place else to go, you are under the same roof. Please pray that GOD will lead you in your life. If you have any doubts now, listen to them, they are magnified by about a million when you are married. And that by the way goes for anything that bugs you now. People don't change with a piece of paper. Thanks for listening and if I have helped even one young person here, it makes it worth the writing.
greetings to boys in heaven and anonymous cc. you are both often in my thoughts and prayers. as for me i have been more out than in the ap church for some time living a cowardly hypocritical life. but life is a learning process and that is where i am at present. i don't feel compelled to search for a new church but am finding peace through my connection with god and my angels through meditaion. ja
What really bugs me is the assumption that every christian must make initially. We must first look at ourselves and be willing to place the images we hold that deine who we are inside a box labelled "evil".
This disturbs me on several levels first: why call something that is natural (i.e. hormones and sexual urges) evil wouldn't it be easier to control if we first considered these things natural and ceased to feel guilt for being human? Second: To make a child a christian one must alter the child's self image so they are willing to place themselves inside the box labelled "evil" or "in-need-of-salvation" or "destined to fed the fires of hell" and I belive this distortion of an innocents ego in such a destructive manner is just that, destructive and arguably immoral.
This is the ultimate problem I had that caused me to leave the OALC but I realize that the same destruction of self worth happens across the mainstream christian world. Why whould we desire to turn our innocent children into mindless clones afraid to think and decide for themselves? Having to constantly question their ability to comprehend the world in which they live?
Because it's true I've been told. But I ask you; Is it really? and how would you know or even begin to find out?
I am doing some research on the OALC for personal reasons. My father married a lady 17 years ago that is a member of the OALC. They had three children, 18,16, & 12. My father and this lady divorced about 10 years ago and he has been going through hell since then in regards to even being able to see his children. One completed confirmation, and the 16 year old either is going through it now or completed it as well. They do nothing but judge my father and his entire family. Their Mother, I believe, would be quite content if they never saw us again, for we are not part of their religion. Last year, their Mother sent me a very rude letter saying that I didn't respect their religious beliefs and that the children found my families lifestyle "disgusting". I guess I am looking for some insight on OALC. This is the 1st time I have looked into it and I feel a lot of anger because this has ripped our family apart. My father has not seen his children for a year. The last time he heard from them, they invited him to the church because the Elders were going to be there??
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