Many Blessings to you all this Christmas season and always!
We all know how busy life is, especially around the holidays!
When there's a new post, I receive an email to inform me. However it doesn't tell me which post it's under, and finding it can be time consuming.
I've left all the pages and comments intact, but have the comment function available only on the most recent 3 posts. Please feel free to cut and paste whichever parts you need when commenting on an older topic. If it's a topic you want revisited, I can move it back up front.
Christ's Love and Peace to you all!
posted by Left the OALC at 8:34 PM
36 Comments:
I occasionally attend the OALC for the purpose of visiting ones I've grown to love over the years. I personally believe it all to be silly superstitions and have one question: why do people find it so hard to leave? A person is granted one life and to spend it struggling against an archaic ideology seems an awful waste of time. Caste aside the fear and ignorance instilled by religion!
P.S. I heard about this blog in a sermon at the church. The idea of discourse is, apparently, quite unpopular.
I am sure you must be mistaken. They would NEVER name a blog in a sermon at OALC. That would just cause a curiosity which they wouldn't want. If you think you're correct, I'd be curious as to who the speaker was.
To Anonymous of 12/5/06. What do you mean by New ALC? Vancouver congregation vs. Hockinson? What is the difference in New ALC. How did it come about?
Perhaps Anon of 12/5/06 is referring to the Grace Apostles Church. This is the "newest" I have heard about.
The speaker didn't mention this blog specifically, but spoke of websites and blogs that are popping up and how this is another "sign of the times". Just another tool to instill fear of the so-called end of the world. I will not mention the name because I don't feel that is important. I wouldn't worry about curiosity from the OALCers for they can't handle disparagement. Happy New Year all.
To anon 12-26
The "new" AlC is just simply the ALC. Same doctrine & belief system as the OALC, but with less of the legalisms, a greater acceptance of others, etc... If you peeled away all the unnecessary things the OALC consentrates on & got down to faith, the bible & God, you'd find the ALC. Hockinson & Vancouver are about the same & considered "new". The new conotation was derived from a major church split some years ago away from the OALC.
I think this is correct, if not someone please correct me!
Farewell, beloved Marian. Will I ever heal from such loss?
Anon 1/01
The ALC and the OALC split in 1892, so its been a "few" years. The ALC church in Hockinson was founded in 1897, so again, nothing "new" about it. In a nutshell the doctrine that both subscribe to as a whole is similar. Not the same, but close. The differences lie more in the way the doctrine has been interpreted. Let our hope and prayer be that in the end we may all be joined together with Christ.
why would god create all of his children just to waste them in hell, if they don't find a couple little churches in the woods of washington state. this thought is so far out, its mind bogleing and you that attened the oalc should be ashamed you have been so miss lead!your kids are being turned into little devils now as we speek because of your hate for people of the world. BAD CRAZY! HITLER?
my Ex-wife is so consused with her up bringing she can't even make a decision without calling the preachers. She is a 35 year old woman that lives in a body with no mind? The prachers turned her against her own daughter.And soon against her son. I will never understand the enability to see plain reallity. If your love is with jesus then all should read the bible for his or her self. Living with no carpet in the house and clearly in poverty the husband is mentally disable and collects SSI. do work on bicycles in his garage, while his family suffers in poverty. We pay for this family, SSI, food stamps, health care, Low income housing, free attorneys where is the good in this way of life. They have been so miss lead by the church they don't know how to take care of day to day life. The sad part is she will not let my son live with me because the preachers told her not till after confirmation. So there he sits in filth and poverty.
Oh Dear!! Anonymous I feel so sorry about your situation. Can you do something through the court? I know that sometimes you can get a hearing with a judge to look at what the court has already done, and make changes. It sounds like you have to get that kid out of there. Where is the daughter? What does Mom do to make you know she has turned against the girl? Tell us more about it, and maybe some help can come your way. Can you make a good home for your kids? Talk to us. God bless you
My daughter has lived with me since she was 2, when her mom walked out on us, for another man. My daughter is fine A's & B's and happy in life,has fun with sports. (15 years old.) Her mother has had ussiues with her being involved in sports and wearing makeup,now boys. Someone she talked to said my daughter was poisn to the other kids and so she called me to pick her up and remove her from her house. My son sees all of this and how the house holds are and wants out but her only concern is the church and what the preachers say. She has 3 boys stuffed into a 10x10 room which 2 pee the bed and then climb in bed with my son to then pee his bed. Sick! I talked to this summer about my son moving with me. after she talked to the preachers they said after conformation. I have talked to a couple attorneys they said my chances where not good. do you know about other options for us. We could sure use the help. she has now put him on adderall which is a adhd med. Now she will recieve more state money. please help!
OK--I have more questions. Do you have a job and make enough to support both children? Do you pay child support to your wife? Any problems with the law, alcohol or any of that stuff? If your answers are good that will work in your favor. Start with the school. If the school has a councelor make an appointment with her/him. You might need to include his teacher. Ask the councelor to talk to your son, so he/she can find out you are being honest. Be straight forward, open, and remember they are there to help your son. That is their responsibility. If there isn't a school councelor, talk to the principal. Who prescribed meds for the kid? Was there an evaluation done by a mental health professional? You can call CPS, child protection service, and make a report. They won't remove a child unless the kid is in serious danger, but it wouldn't hurt to tell them you think your son is in an unhealthy environment. Get your daughter to help. Maybe you could take her to an appointment with the school councelor to back you up. Above all, make SURE your son knows he can count on you. It could be he will be stuck there until he is 13, but he will know you are waiting for him. God Bless you--
Yes i have job and own a home, I am 40 years old. No drugs or alcohol here. I called CPS and they wouldn't even take the report unless the child is in danger. Its so wierd how my EX-wife can act the way she does towards my daughter, she is from the world and that is why I know. The OALCers are brain washed from birth it seems.I mean these kids are her blood and the preachers word is more important then their well being it seems. Its sad. I tell my kids that its not their moms fault really its the way she was raised and she is not thinking or feeling with her own brain or heart. I have never felt so cut off from anything like this. She has a truly cold heart. Its like they are dead today so they can live tomorrow? I don't think thats the way it was intended. Thanks for your ear!:)
Hello again--I know, it's really hard to understand how a parent can close themselves off from a child (even if they are adult children) because of the influence of a preacher. How does your wife treat your son when he is at her house? How often do you get to see him? What do you think about going to school and at least talking to his teacher? People need to know the spot that kid is in. Just be real strong and know you are so important to your kids. Being there for them is the most important thing you will ever do in your life. Bless your heart--
Yes i have been to the school and i have talked to the teachers. they are helpful and nice but they don't really understand the deal and or make a comment on it. The mom treats my son not real bad i don't think although he gets no direction and i think that is some of his problem. He is so smart and reads great. they say he has ADD,the teachers comment was most of his problems were tardyness and being organized. i think that starts in the home. I don't really know where to go so i called Bud and Russell and am going to try to meet with them. Thank You and I will keep you posted.
It's Mom's responsibility to get him to school on time. Where did he get the meds? The reason I ask is because sometimes prescriptions get written by family doctors who really don't have the knowledge to access a kid. It needs to be done by a mental health professional. I think you are a wonderful Dad--you are doing the actions that show the kids that their welfare comes first to you. Nothing strenghtens a kid more. Did you used to be a church member? Be sure and keep us posted. Good luck meeting with the preachers. Know that God understands that you are doing your very best for your kids--and nothing is more honorable then that.
The meds came from a medical doctor. but i don't think he has really been diagnosed by a mental health professional. That is the issue I didn't get a chance to get involved in this whole decision. Now she won't let me talk to him at all on the phone I guess I will have to wait till my weekend. Or talk to my daughter even. The best part about this is that my kids do know i love them. Its to bad but its driving a wedge between the kids and thier mom. (If she recieves money for this I will be floored.) No I was never a oalc but i have been around them now for around 17 years. You know i was reading through this site and looked at the child abuse page. The moms family moved to Alaska when my daughter was around 3 or 4. I noticed a scratch on her private area and mentioned it to the grandma (my kids moms mom.) and soon after that they moved. You know it now makes sense. I bet they have a big problem with child molestation. When they go visting the parents don't pay attention to what the kids are doing or where thay are. If the preachers are covering it up, that is so wrong. Why don't the police get involved? These are inocent kids and they don't have a chance! Why is our goverment looking the other way? I don't understand how the parents can put the church before their own kids, isn't our kids our real true love.
It may not seem like it, but you are really in a good spot. Those kids know that you have their best interests at heart---and they will love you for that. The wedge that is being driven between the kids and mom is of her own making. I would be real careful about bad-mouthing the mom, just letting the facts speak for themselves will be enough. Who knows about the child abuse thing, that's another area you have to tread lightly. However, if it came out that it were true, then I'm all for nailing someone's butt to the wall. I'm not an expert on anything, but I sure heard the worry and frustration in your first post, and have wanted to support you. When you go up against a whole institution like the OALC it may seem like you are outnumbered, but you will have the hearts of your children, and that's what counts. Hang in there Friend. Is there anyone else on this blog that has an experience like this guy's? I would like to hear some opinions--anyone? Any different ideas then what I have been putting out there?
I grew up OALC and I know Bud and Russel. I love and respect them as people, but only as imperfect people, not as someone in charge of my life. They are imperfect, just like myself and everyone else, and where Im sure they had my best interest in mind and felt they were doing what was right, they caused more harm than good to everyone. I believe its the culture of the church, not necessarily the people themselves.
Growing up there was so much family conflict for so many, many reasons. outside, professional help would have surpassed anything available in the church. In my opinion that is because they try so hard to give advise on situations they have no training or experience in. They approached all my situations from only one angle; the OALC's. When in reality any situation is comprised like a puzzle and no one person here on earth will have all the experience or answers to help you. There are too many facets period.
I gew up with similar experiences to what you are describing, and I inadvertantly recreated that situation. Although because I went through it once before I am definately doing things differently now. I cant change the choices Ihave already made, but I can change now and in the future, and I have and am.
Its never easy. If you are looking for advise I can pass along what I have learned and adapted for myself: Dont speak ill of others, but speak the truth even if its ill, but speak in facts (all of them) not opinions. Opinions are individual to each of us and have to be formed by each individual. Give it if asked, but with temperence to your children. Admit your faults quickly and make ammends, they need to know how to do that too. With each decision I make I ask myself 'how can I make this impact thier faith positively?' I have decided that my main goal is to still have a relationship with them after they are 18 and its not manditory. And by relationship I dont mean they have to like me (dont try to be the disneyland parent) I want mutual respect to be ourselves, free to disagree but still love and respect each other. I communicate openly with my kids about anything they want to talk about. They are also in counseling; so they know its ok to reach out to others, so they have someone nuetral to talk to about whatever they need/want to, and so the sole responsibility of proving Im not crazy isnt on me.
well hope thats not too general or lofty goals :) I found a book at the libray the other day about a divorce guide for fathers (the first of its kind?) I only skimmed through it, but it had some great ideas about how to stay connected to your kids and stay positive for yourself too. And if you are interested in a book that addresses the dynamics of abusive nature/situations (ie my opinion of the church dynamics) there is a wonderful book that talks about how to build a positive attachement with your children, especially through extremely negative situations. Its by Lundy Bancroft and its called "When dad hurts mom, helping your child heal the wounds of witnessing abuse" It will probably have a lot of info that wont pertain to you or your situation, but the chapters on how to work with your kids Ifound to be invaluable.
The children are in my prayers.
to anon 12/30. I havent been to the OALC in many years, but the experience you related sounds familiar. Your comment about them not being curious enough to explore the blogs because they couldnt handle disparagement made me chuckle. Only because its so true, but its actually more sad than funny.
Good post hp3. The advice you gave our friend was right on. Since I grew up in the OALC I know the power that church can have in lives and hearts. For someone like our new friend, watching his kids coming in second to the preachers and their opinions, it must be enough to drive him right up the wall. Must be inconceivable.
OK--we are waiting to hear from you anonymous--hope all is well. You have friends here.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
seconded exoalc. If someone wants to disclose thier own name that is thier decision, but we should not be making that decision for others.
anon: I believe that each of us actively works on dealing with any bitterness we have and sincerely hopes to move past it and not be driven by it. I also believe that purpose is one of the things that brought many of us to this site and others like it. Thank you.
bitterness, angry, unhappy people. now
you want sensorship. funny how that works.
The bully in the play ground was not althletic enough to play basketball with the other boys so he tried harrasing them, calling them names and hitting them. The players have game the bully is still a piece of sh_t.
someone sounds angry and without respect for others and I lost the point of thier contribution?
LLLreader sez: I am so ticked!! The Dad who came to this blog was looking for some support and help. He sounded so sincere in his worry about his children. We, as Christians, have tried to offer him some help. It's not out of anything but Christian love. We care about other people. Now comes damnfool who is so delighted about knowing who the poster is that he has to name him. I have always encouraged members of the OALC to post their ideas and I feel that if people are happy in the OALC they should stay in it. But damnfool I say---GO AWAY. You don't care about this man and his kid. GET LOST!! I want the Dad to know we will continue to think about him and his son. I sure hope that this blog hasn't caused any problems for him. Please let us know how you are doing. And as for you damnfool--TAKE A HIKE! I hope someone pees in your bed.
I think its interesting that anon's response to 'this website' is "none of this is true" when 'this website' and others like it, are a lot of people sharing thier thoughts, feelings, experiences, hopes and dreams. How can one person categorize another person's inner workings, and experiences as "not true" ???
Its a cliche oalc response with no depth to it. Kind of like my brick wall analogy. That Im trying to carry on this conversation with a brick wall... the wall has inscriptions of cute, meaningless cliches on it... So that no matter what I say the wall will only repeat itself... and there is no intelligent response to that. I can only shake my head and walk away. (I can remember my uncles being so proud of themselves when they could make a 'worldly' speechless. It was actually a bragging point. They just never realized it was because they looked too stupid to converse with)
exoalc
Since your website has oalc specifically in it, and people will probably find this first, I would like to suggest that you create links to the many other sites that may not be so quickly and easily accessable. There is a wealth of info out there, and if someone is taking the time to look, it would be nice to give them avenues to continue thier search.
Just a thought and thanks again for being here :)
HI I AM FROM "THE WORLD" IM SO GLAD I FOUND THIS SITE. I HAD ATTENDED CHURCH AT THE OALC FOR 2 YEARS. I QUIT ATTENDING BECAUSE I COULDNT UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE COULD FEEL THAT IF YOU WERENT FROM THE CHURCH YOU WERE GOING TO HELL. MY PARENTS ARE FROM THE WORLD ALSO. TO THIS DAY I HAVE A FEW FRIENDS THAT WILL TALK TO ME, BUT PRETTY MUCH ALL HAVE SHUNNED THAT I DONT ATTEND CHURCH ANYMORE. WHEN I DO RUN INTO PAST FRIENDS THEY ALWAYS ENCOURAGE ME TO GO, BUT I CANNOT. I STRUGGLE WITH NOT ATTENDING, SOMETIMES I WONDER, WHAT IF? BUT ITS ABOUT YOUR FAITH WITHIN GOD. NOT A PREACHER TELLING YOU, NOT ATTENDING CHURCH, NOT JUST HANGING WITH PEOPLE FROM CHURCH. THERES A WHOLE WORLD OF PEOPLE OUT THERE, THE WHOLE SITUATION IS CONFUSING TO ME. IM ALSO CONFUSED OF THE SIN THEY TALK ABOUT WATCHING TV, MUSIC, MAKE-UP, PIERCINGS, DRINKING, DRUGS, SMOKING, ECT... BUT HALF THE CHURCH SMOKES AND ITS ALOUD, MAKING NO SENSE TO ME. I COULD GO ON FOR DAYS ABOUT SUCH THINGS.
anon 5:30
I think you will find many here who have similar experiences to yours; including the confusion over thier detailed beliefs and how you are (mis)treated, how love is verbalized yet not shown. Your right, there is a whole world of people, which includes many followers of Christ, in many different denominations, that will welcome you with thier actions.
I have had a thought for the past few years regarding the church's/member's obsession with detailing sin down to the dotted "i" with regulations and exceptions: Does anyone remember the pharacies and scribes??????
I am currently in my search for Jesus Christ. I grew up in an ALC family and have felt suffocated my entire life while attending church. I am trying to "break away" from this rule-governed church and feeling so weak and alone in doing so. Many of my siblings are in the same positon, so I am happy to know I'm not the only one blinded by this. I need your prayers to let me find my way.
Others have said it more elequently than I, but I want to extend a welcome to our discussions, and encourage you to read your bible and pray. God knows your heart, and knows you are seeking Him; He WILL answer.
The journey is not easy, but definately worth it!
I am not from the church, but I married a man who was raised in the church, and although he does not go to the services and does not agree with a lot of the teaching there, it is ingrained in him. He will not consider going to a healthy church and resents me if I do. Our family is suffering spiritually because of it. His family's religion (OALC) is like a big cloud over my head. I've been out of church, fellowship, and the word for many years now. Although I still believe, I feel like God's spirit has left me.
Once found, twice lost.
Thank you for your advise, and yes we do have children. I know what I need to do; I've known it all along. Knowing what's right and doing what's right are two different things. I know what's right. It's so hard to act on it when I feel like I have no support. And I know that's where prayer, faith, and God's word comes in.
My heart goes out to you. Your instincts as a mother are to provide the best for your kids and I hope your husband can see why the status quo is not good for them. Those of us who have "gone it alone" do not recommend it -- it is lonely to say the least. You'll need support and if you feel comfortable telling us where you live, we may be able to provide it offline as well as online. I'm in Seattle.
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