Welcome, Amanda!
Yes, this is still an active blog site, and we're glad you found us.
For a blog with more frequent new ideas and threads, check out http://extoots.blogspot.com. Free and friends are fabulous at keeping it interesting there :)
I keep this blog available for anyone who wants to check out the old posts here or start any new conversations. I'll happily move a topic up front to a new thread if there are things that people want to discuss. My intent for this site was to be here if folks need support-- something I didn't have at the beginning of my journey away from the OALC. It has helped me so much to have others who have been through it to talk to.
So to all who visit, don't let the date on the newest thread fool you-- No matter how far back that date is, we're still here for you.
God's love, peace, and blessings to you all.
posted by Left the OALC at 10:44 AM
53 Comments:
I've been reading through the other posts and everything thats discussed hits so close to home. Its nice to know there are others out there who have the same feelings! One of the reasons I came across this site is I heard some members of the OALC talking about what a "nasty" site it was, so I had to come see for myself. Its been the most helpful site I could have found, and has truly helped me. I started going to the oalc when i was about 12 years old after my mother made repentance. I never could fully adjust to their ways after growing up outside of the religion. My family still goes, but myself and some of my siblings have since left. I've had my struggles along the way, at some times even doubting the existence of God at all. Its nice to know that there are other people that I can vent to that have actually experienced what I have gone through!
Amanda, I can't imagine what culture shock to have come into the OALC at 12 years of age. We have an eleven year old who was not raised there who visits there with us at funerals and other family get togethers and cannot understand how people can hold to their beliefs and treat others as she is treated. God lead guide and direct you in your journey with all of us on the outside.
I doubted the existence of God as well when I left. Then I had to stop and think, ok, where did everything come from? Nature, man, animals, the stars and planets. As complex as they all are I cannot believe there isn't a greater being. I don't accept that those things just appeared out of nowhere (the big bang theory). Someone has a genius mind to create all of it, and that to me showed me there is indeed a God. Then I experienced the Holy Spirit and WOW! There is no way I couldn't believe now. Its truly amazing. Gods blessings to you! It is a struggle, but you will find your way. Seek you will find, knock the door will open, ask and you will receive.
Unforgivable Sin
I would like to start a new thread on this issue. I grew up OALC. I am now married with children and belong to a healthy church. In the OALC I was taught there is one unforgivable sin, they call it "selling your birthright" and explained that it meant either saying bad things about the OALC, or if you were born/baptized into the church and then left. I have assumed that this is the theoretical origin of the shaming and shunning of members who "stray away" (myself, for example). Can anyone please explain the theological thinking behind this, and if you encountered this teaching in your experience with OALC.
There is one thing on my mind that has always bothered me about the OALC. I've asked preachers and members this question and no one has a specific answer. They preach so strongly against competition and staying away from sports while children are in school. Yet, there are so many members that start their own businesses, lots of times contracting or construction. Isn't that a much more serious form of competition rather than playing sports for a few years in high school? Thats a form of competition where they're spending the rest of their working lives in competition with "the world". It seems so hypocritical to me. Yet, no one has an answer on why thats alright.
I think somewhere down the line someone decided sports would be wrong, so they just all have to agree. They knew it as children, and as adults its still drilled into their heads that its wrong. I think one of the reasons too is that they didn't want us being around other "worldly" kids, we might be tempted to stray from the church.
Its no different than alot of the other silly "guidelines" as they are called. Makeup in my church was not allowed, but perms in the hair were. Whats the difference? Changing your hair or changing your face, none in my opinion. Or, necklaces were ok, earrings not. Even clip on earrings were not allowed. Whats the difference, jewelry around your neck or jewelry on your ears? None in my opinion. They are just all real silly rules. Too much focus on the outward appearance and not enough on the inner. That is very common in spiritually abusive churches. God looks at your heart, period! But yah, if you question them, the response is always, Don't think with your carnal mind, just accept it, that is Gods will.
Well, God gave me a brain for a reason. I do agree somethings we accept in faith and don't think with our carnal mind, but not silly things such as those.
The whole sports thing is pretty amusing to me. I still have a bunch of old school "annuals" that show a lot of today's OALC preachers and teachers in uniform. As a matter of fact, the one year back in the 1950s when my tiny little school actually made it to the state playoffs in basketball, the majority of the team was made up of those "Finn church" kids.
In our home, I was never taught that sports were wrong, and played them informally and formally all through school. Perhaps that was because my Dad loved to play baseball himself and had played amateur ball as a young man. However, as noted before, our congregation was one of those that was on the slippery slope to hell in more than one OALC mind elsewhere! The one thing I do regret though was that some of us were not allowed to play musical instruments, although some were... I was pleased that our oldest son became a very accomplished trumpet player, and was even good enough to go jam with some of the heavyweights in that original den of whores and thieves -- the French Quarter in New Orleans!
Hello, cvow,
You haven't posted here in quite awhile and it's good to hear from you again. You were very helpful to me when I was searching for answers and finally left the OALC.
I hope you are well. God's blessings to you and your family during this wonderful Christmas season!
ex-doubter
Thanks ex-doubter. I'm glad that something made sense!
I hope everyone who reads and comments here had a peaceful and blessed Christmas. Ours was wonderful and certainly we were blessed, with all children and their spouses home -- but with two Labs thrown in, it was anything but peaceful!
I have started a new forum for ex-church members. It is at www.postlaestadianrevival.freeforums. org.
I have a lot of questions about the church...Finnish Lutheran Apostolic (Now Independant Lutheran) My boyfriend and family go to this church, and I do not.
I would be curious to speak to someone who use to go to the church, but no longer does. I really need some help! Thanks
I'm new to this, but it looks like I've made myself an account now. I posted the above comment
CuriousMich--
Feel free to ask anything you want... I think most of us ex's still stop by to see if there's anything new or anybody who needs someone to talk to currently. But I bet most of what you want to know is already covered somewhere in this blog... The power of this blog is the support system it offers to those who want it.
God's Blessings and peace to you :)
Well, I guess my biggest question is why they don't beleive in dancing. Everytime I try to ask my boyfriend about it he either gets mad or defensive about it or just dosen't have an answer for me ...basically just an "I don't know" It seems he has been brought up to beleive all this silly mumbo-jumbo and not even have his own opionion on it...and if he stopped to think about it, he'd probably realize how stupid it is. I don't want to put anyone down, or judge anyone, cuz after all, that should only be left up to God. But, I am just confused and want some answers. I am not going to join a church with a bunch of rediculous rules that don't make any sense. -Thanks for your help! :)
I know what you mean. Every time I ask one of my relatives why they're not allowed to do something or another, they never have an answer. Its always "you just have to have faith" or "don't question god's word". To me, it seems more like laestadeus' word rather than god's, but the point is, nobody has an answer. They're not allowed to do anything, and to me its just about separating themselves from the rest of the world rather than actually believing in right or wrong. I'm to the point where I don't even want to go around my family anymore because thats all they talk about is what I should or shouldn't be doing. That church seriously just makes me sick, everything about it. And everyone that goes there, with a few exceptions, has the same exact arrogant cocky attitude. Don't expect to get any answers out of them, it never happens.
Haha, I know...it really is a dead-end road no matter where I look. To me, I beleive if you are seperating yourself that way, and acting as if you are above everyone else who is not a "beleiver" you are not "loving everybody" in the way you should, in the way God asks. I have been with my boyfriend for a very long time, and we finally are getting married..but for the longest time I felt like I just wasn't good enough, and I never felt like I fitted in. I never get the handshake, I'll get a "hello" or a hug..I just laugh inside anyway. I mean, his whole family is very nice and I love them to death...but when they start talking about drinking, and dancing, and the Catholics and ripping on everything in life basically ...I have to just sit there and keep my mouth shut. I have come to realize that I need to just meet him in the middle on it and maybe someday I can open his eyes completely. I just push it a little more with him. I am older now and I have become more wise, so I've realized that I know that I am a really good person with a big heart, and I always try to do the right thing...and I keep my faith, and that's all you can do...I'm not going to fall under that web and rip on everyone else just to make myself feel better. My problem now is...at our wedding reception...music and dancing. Music is VERY important to me and my family...and I really can't not have that at my reception. So..I'm stuck on that.
CuriousMich--
As an ex-oalcer, I think I know where you are headed and it is not going to be good!
I too came from the "world", made repentance and stayed with the church a long time. But those nagging thoughts that you have about music, dancing and man made rules in general are not going to go away. Your common sense is telling you that there is something wrong with this picture, and believe me , there definitely is . These Laestadian churches are very legalistic. Don't do this or that! You must not cut or curl your hair, wear makeup, jewelry, etc, etc., etc...
You will be told to obey the rules and trust in the preachers and Elders and do not question the doctrine or the leaders authority. Most members are bible illiterate, as are the preachers.
If you plan to marry this person, you are also marrying the church. The church members and his family will never accept you as an equal.
I don't mean to scare you! I just wish to warn you to at least discuss these things before you commit to marriage. Talk about how your children will be raised if you don't join the church. Will you be expected to attend church, member or not? Will you be pressured to repent and join by your boyfriend and his family?
Please!!! Be cautious. I only wish someone had warned me!
God Bless!
Curiousmich,
Try this web site for oalc information:
http://www.oldapostoliclutheran.com/default.asp
you state
"I have come to realize that I need to just meet him in the middle on it and maybe someday I can open his eyes completely. I just push it a little more with him. I am older now and I have become more wise, so I've realized that I know that I am a really good person with a big heart, and I always try to do the right thing...and I keep my faith, and that's all you can do...I'm not going to fall under that web"
I guarantee he is thinking the very same thing about you and your beliefs!!
I also have personal experience in this area: I was attending the church, dated a "worldly" and eventually became engaged. We started discussing issues such as what our daily lives would be like and how our children would be raised, and even though it seemed we could "compromise" I knew in my heart we were "compromising" on issues the church held dear (and the "world" saw as silly) and we would find no "peace" from either side, and our families if we were "different". I also knew we were both trying to "compromise" for the sake of trying to make the other happy, with no change in our actual belief system. Therefore both of our well intentioned compromises would just be meaningless words in the long run; we both ended up feeling like we had given up a part of ourselves we felt we shouldnt have and angry at the other...
Well I think the saddest part of all of this situation is that during our engagement, when I started to realize how difficult our life was going to be, I went to the preachers for advice (as thats what they do) Well those "nice gentlemen" referred me to The Elders Letter Book (NOT the bible) and a passage that stated something to the effect of if a couple is engaged and one of them "awakens" the engagement could not be broken off. THen I was also informed that they would not marry us.
So what was I supposed to do, stay engaged forever?? I left more confused in my soul and mind than before I went in.
So we married, had our fights and divorced. Then I was told I was at fault for the divorce (still not sure why?) It was a no win situation all the way around, from the very beginning.
Well since leaving the church :) I have started reading my bible (something I was discouraged from doing before) I do remember a passage somewhere to the effect that if a couple is already married (I believe with neither as Christians) and one becomes a Christian, while the other has not, the believing spouse shall not leave the non believing spouse, but rather win them to Christ by example and with love. (a lesson applicable to life as well, that all the oalc members I know could use to learn)
While there may indeed be some couples that "make it work" I did not want a relationship like that. I wanted a relationship where we could communicate about everything that we needed to, especially the most important issue of all in life: our soul salvation. We dont have to agree, but we cant be polorized and we have to be able to talk!!
One thing about the oalc churches Ive been to, they discourage independent thinking and reading the bible -so you will not get an opinion or belief that has been researched, soul searched and that is biblically based. It will more than likely be a distorted version of something they believe to remember someone once said over in Europe over 4 generations ago. And who can defend that on a personal level?? Its not an arguement that is going to make sense, as Im sure you have discovered. And when they realize they cant answer, the resort to some flippant phrase such as "trust the elders" and "its a sin to question" and "its faith" etc etc. I believe the anger comes from thier own realization they dont really know, which causes them questions, which they belive to be a sin, which causes them GREAT FEAR!! Its not an easy egg to crack!
Also, there is the biblical verse regarding being unequally yolked. I remember the oalc referring to this quite often when relating a relationship/marriage with an oalc member and a "worldly" (which you will ALWAYS be, unless you 'repent' and 'convert') Well I belive this verse can be applicable to a Christian and a non Christian, but I fail to understand why it should be applicable to Christians of different churches.
The BIG issue is that we all believe in Jesus, that He died for our sins and we need to believe in Him to be saved. The rest is just parsley garnishment.
So be sure you know your own beliefs about marriage and divorce, that you have thought long and hard about what type of marriage and life you want. Also be aware of where he may be at, but probably cannot tell you (because he probably doesnt even realize it.) Or if he has been advised he is "stuck" that would be crummy for the both of you.
curiousmich, Run as hard and as fast as you can away from this situation. Yes, I mean break your engagement. I was born and raised in the OALC and am a preacher's kid. I have been 'out' for more than half of my life (I am past 50yo), so I am no greenhorn. What your instincts are telling you is right. Unfortunately there is no changing these folks. This is the only world they know...
I also would encourage you to run from this situation.
I'm living it also, though I left the OALC long into my marriage and after having our children. We're making the best we can out of our situation, but even so, it can be painful. The church's control over people has far-reaching consequences in ways you could never imagine.
Wow...Lots of good information from you all. Thank you. They don't have rules about cutting and curling hair and not wearing makeup or not watching tv. The 3 rules they have are "no dancing" "no drinking" and (of course) "abstinence." Well, I know I'm not going to "run" I have been with him for 12 years...he is the love of my life, as I am his. I just feel like we can in some way "beat this" He loves me, and yes, he may go to church there, but like you all have said (and I agree) they are spoon fed all of these silly things blindfolded and have no idea why they beleive what they beleive. That is why I think there is a chance to pull him even further away. I just know that I am not going to give up on him and what we have because of what the church thinks. I know who I am, who my boyfriend is and what I beleive, and nobody can force anything upon me. Actually, they haven't forced me or even asked me very often to go to church there. I've already told his mom that we are not getting married in the church. I did not grow up going to church...Both my parents were forced to go all of the time, and in turn they didn't want that for their kids, so we never went. Still I grew up with wonderful morals. I don't go around lying, stealing, or cheating, and I'm not a hypocrit. I am a very honest, hard-working, good person. I love God and I have faith...so I feel like I kind of have an advatage sometimes compared to other people. I don't have to agree and belive all of that nonsense. People get absolutely crazy about God/religion. So, I don't have a lot of knowledge about the bible...but I'm very open, and always willing to listen and learn. I WANT to listen and learn. I take everything into my heart, but at the same time, I weed out all the nonsense. I won't be sucked into something like the Finnish Lutheran Apostolic church. I am being very open here about myself, and I don't know how religious all of you are, but I am not all that religious in I don't have much knowledge about God, the bible, etc. and my fiance knows that and has been with me for 12 years, so I know this is all ok with him. So, I hope I am not offending anyone here. I'm really not trying to...I'm just super curious about it all, and that is how I stumbled upon this website (they really don't put any informatino out there) I know that none of this (not going to church, etc) makes me a bad person. It dosen't bother me one bit (or at least I try not to let it bother me, and when it does, I just need to step back from it) what other people think about my religious beleifs. I make my decisions on my own...and I know where I stand and if I have a couple drinks a couple times a year, I know I'm not going to hell no matter what anyone says. And dancing is not a sin either in my eyes. Did you all think/feel the same way I am? Standing up for yourself, what you beleive, etc, but still made marriage, etc. hard? Thank you all for discussing with me...I really appreciate! By the way...haven't been able to log back in under "Curiousmich" I guess I didn't write my pw. down or soemthing. Where do you all live anyway?
We live anywhere in the USA! In any case, I think I can speak for many here when I say we would wish to you save you alot of regret down the road by putting this relationship aside and moving on with your life, hopefully joined with someone whose beliefs you share. The Laestadian belief system is insidious you never know when or where its tentacles will show themselves. That said 12 years of your life is a long time. I wonder how anyone could invest that many years into a relationship with such a huge elephant between them or at least such a huge bump in the rug. Just my thoughts.
Thank you...I appreciate any and all of your thoughts/information :)
Curiousmich-,
Wow, 12 years is a long time to spend with someone who won't commit.
You say you don't know much about God or religion and If your boyfriend is Laestadian, he doesn't either. I know, I was there for years and new very little about the bible.
Why not try reading the bible on your own. I did when I was questioning the OALC and it opened up a whole new world to me. I eventually attended a bible study at a bible based church and I learned what it really means to be a child of God.
You could ask your boyfriend to join you in bible study. I can't emphasize too much the importance of sharing your beliefs with your mate. It worked for me.
I will keep you in my prayers!
I do plan on starting to read the bible. It has been on my mind for quite some time. And it really needs to start being a priority for me. Have a nice weekend! :)
Okay, I have a question. I'm previously from the LLC, and I can remember the split in '73 or so...my question is, was the split with the OALC or the (F)ALC? Does anyone know?
The group we split with was the group who had Walter Torola and somebody Petaisto for some of their ministers. I'm trying to get it straight in my mind which group is which. I hear much more on this blog and the extoots blog about the OALC, but I think that we split from the ALC. I think the church was called the Finnish Apostolic Lutheran Church before we changed our name to Laestadian Lutheran Church.
It seemed very odd to me, even as a child, that if we were the "original" church, why then did we have to change our name? Just an aside.
But if anyone could help clarify this, I would appreciate it!
Daisy, it wasn't the OALC. Those two names are not familiar.
It had to be the FALC, then, which would make sense, because I remember we used to be the Finnish Apostolic Lutheran Church.
And I don't remember the issues of long hair for women, or wearing a huivi, even before the split. I know that lots of the older women kept their hair long and wore them in buns, but as the years went on, more and more of them started cutting their hair and getting perms.
They are very similar in terms of the exclusivity, however. Thanks for the info. It just helps me get things straight in my head. :)
It is VERY hard to get it strait in one's head! Its like a maddening mind game of someone telling you black is white and you are the crazy one for thinking the opposite.
Especially when each LLL church branch, claims to be the one and only and has thier own lists of rights/wrongs and condemnations. Yet even individual localities (locations) of the same branch, claim to be one minded with all the others and still have thier own and different lists; they just wont admit its different. So for example if I relate my experiences and church regulations in an east coast oalc congregation (church), a west coast oalc member will adamently claim my experiences couldnt be true!! as its not consistant with what they have been taught; that they are all the same and all the only. Differences simply cannot be!!
Its maddening to try and discuss this subject because they already know (even if your both current members) an open mind approach to this issue (or any really) is NOT encouraged. The preachers ONLY are to interpret and think, and they teach that all is the same, so it must be so PERIOD. Dont think beyond what you have been told or you are sinning, doubting your leaders and therefore losing your faith and salvation.
Hi All ~ Here's what I know about the different branches... there is the OALC - Old Apostolic Lutheran Church.. perhaps the most "conservative" at least in appearance.
FALC - Which I understand to be First Apostolic Lutheran Church or Heidamans (sorry about the spelling)
LLC - I believe is the Lutheran Lastadian (spelling again!)
ALC - the Apostolic Lutheran Church.. which is the one I belong to. The members and preachers go from one end of the spectrum to the other.
One of the posters mentioned the Independent ALC which I'm not familiar with, so I don't know if the same as one above, or a break from one of those....I think that there are a couple more at least.
I'm don't know the ins and outs of each one, but from what I've gathered here and elsewhere, there are quite few similarities... shucks, we've probably all got relatives in each branch!
I like to think that the ALC isn't exclusive, but I know that some individuals and congregations are.
Just ME
Well, Left, no one has posted here in a long time!
Are you still here?
Very, very quiet.....
Hello, 4eyes!
Yes, I'm still here:) Though admittedly not trying to start new posts...
I feel like all of the topics that were important for me to work through to get on with my new life in Christ have been discussed.
But I will certainly move new posts up front if there are things people want to talk about...
His Blessings to all!
I was just looking for a website I used to go to, www.oldapostoliclutheran.com. The site where the home page had a story about a little boy with a diamond in his hand, and I can't seem to find that site anywhere anymore. does anyone know what happened to it?
The site oldapostoliclutheran.com is down for now. The site owner is pondering whether to continue it or not. I encourage everyone to ask her to continue that site! It has been a resource to many searching for the truth about the oalc.
Yikes, PLEASE, dont take down the site!!! It is so truthful and accurate and for the first time in my life I was able to define my growing up experiences! How do we contact the moderador now that the site is down? I would even take it over to continue it if needed!
You can e-mail free at:
extoot@gmail.com
.
She can forward your e-mail to the moderator.
you can email me directly at exoalc at symbol hotmail dot com.
I don't know who the owner of that site is, but the person who started it died in an automobile accident awhile back. Maybe that is why it is down.
Helena is the owner of that site. See the post just above this one. My sister who died in a car accident was NOT computer literate. Time to squelch the rumor about her and that website.
I have quite a few questions about everything I've known/learned and what I've read here. I am not in the OALC but am in a different branch which is the LLC. I found this site and others that are somewhat similar by accident. I was reading information about my church online and I wanted to learn more about Lars Laestadius, the man that my church gets its name from. I wondered why he was so important that we used his name. For example, the Mormans follow a man called Joseph Smith who founded their church in 1830. I found that out a couple years ago and I thought that was pretty crazy... not even 200 hundred years old and it's a religion that so many follow. In my mind, God has been teaching His word for so much longer than 1830 so how could this religion be actual. I didn't think it seemed "real." (no offense to anyone) So hence, my questions arose as to why we are using Laestadian for our church name when he was from pretty much the same time era..1830s or so. I realize using his name was to differentiate ourselved from the other branches. And I realize that I don't know exactly how or why we came about. From Luther I know, but why did all of our branches arise from the Lutheran church? It's like there's all of us and our branches and then there's the rest of the Lutherans. But then, of course, I wonder why there are so many branches of "us" when we all came from the same teaching at one time. Not to be redundant, but it confuses me.
All that so many of you have said are pretty much exactly the same that my church preaches. The teachings and "rules" and feelings are all the same. So why so many splits? Is this what God would have wanted? To make one religion be "the one" and then to torture them every 30 years or so to cause them to have heresies? What is the necessity of that? It's painful and confusing. Why would He make His children suffer so much and feel so much sadness when their loved ones chose another pathway; both of them thinking that the other is going to Hell because they didn't choose the same path.
So yes, this is all just some of my many questions.
In my life, I was born and grew up in the LLC. I absolutely loved my childhood and I adore my family, parents and siblings. I am actually thankful I grew up the way I did. I was given many good morals, received much love and learned about the word of God. I always did and I pray I always will believe in God's word because so many times, He is what helped me get through so many difficult times. So it pains me extremely to be so doubtful and wonder if this is really the right church. I gave up my faith once for about 5 years in my early 20s and I repented. When I repented, I felt such joy and happiness in my heart. But, now I fear it may be gone. Now I still have these questions and doubts about my church being the one true faith. It's what I've known ever since I remember. I'm so confused. I believe in God and I have faith in him, I really and truly do. But I can't understand my church teachings. I don't want to say "I give up my faith" Because I do not give up my faith. I still have my faith in God, I just don't understand what they are teaching. I can't just "believe like a child" when I am an adult and I can't understand so many things.
I don't want to hurt my parents, my family by not agreeing with them. I just want to know where to put my faith so God knows I am here and that I believe and that I do carry the Holy Spirit in me.
I apologize this is quite drawn out but if you've read it, I thank you and I would appreciate any comments.
Truth, You will want to check out this blog. There is ongoing discussion here and you will most likely find answers to your questions.
http://www.extoots.blogspot.com/
My heart goes out to you truth. I know where your at because I was once there. Its so very confusing when your doubting the church teachings, and then to figure out what to do about it. No amount of forgiveness could take those doubts from me. I grew up in the LLC as well, but not longer attend there.
God promises to never leave you or forsake you! He is not going to leave you if you decide to attend another church and stop worshipping at the LLC. He is not going to leave you if you stay there. You are NOT condemned before him because you have faith in Jesus Christ.
I think reading the bible would help. I have read almost the whole bible now and I have found several things that are contradictory to what the LLC teaches.
As far as not wanting to hurt your family and friends, that is understandable. For me, I couldn't stay when I didn't believe the preaching. I couldn't believe that God would just ignore the 99.9% of the rest of the people in this world who also have faith in Christ and the bible. I could not and will not believe that about God. My faith and belief in who he really is had to be more important than my family and friends.They chose to put the walls up when I left. They choose to keep me at arms length and not get to close.
I have been going to another church now for almost 3 years and I have learned more going there than in all the years of growing up. It was confusing at first trying to find a church to attend. Which one? Theres so many. I just had to go to several and see where God led me, lots of prayer!
God will help you, he will support you, he will love you. Lean on him.
I know its scary to think your own salvation would be in question if you left. My family and old friends think I'm going to hell, but it doesn't bother me anymore. I know where I stand with God and I believe his promises in the bible. I don't believe he would turn his back on me when I have earnestly searched and had faith in him. I refuse to believe that. Plus my life has changed so much since I grew to know him, thats a testimony in itself that he does indeed exist beyond the LLC. I have met so many people who have also had changed lives since giving their lives to Christ, it wouldn't have been possible otherwise. So I know without a shadow of a doubt, the LLC is not preaching the truth.
But you need to figure that out for yourself in what you believe. I am so glad I am not in that position anymore, the doubts, fears, questions. Its a journey. I have figured it out and can stand strong in God now. Blessings to you on this journey and remember, God loves you! Be the person HE created you to be, follow Christ, you will be fine.
As far as why there are so many Laestadian branches. Well, they disagree over petty issues and split up. They believe they have to all be of one mind. That every single topic/activity/appearance of people has to be in complete agreeance. I think they are missing the issue that onemindedness is being one in mind on spiritual issues, not earthly. Man and wife disagree on issues all the time, so they should divorce? No, they have a deeper union and they focus on that. Same I believe in a church.
I believe its just immature Christians who haven't learned how to grow in Christ. Just my opinion.
And your right, Lars Levi Laestadius was here in the 1800's. So pretty much him and his few followers at the time were the only Christians on earth at that time. How absurd! But if you chose to believe that, thats a persons choice. I just choose not to.
looks like Free`s blog is going all political and away from what I thought was her original intent. Her blog seems to be withering away because of the political B.S. and you can no longer post anonymously. I bet we all can have a lively discussion here!
I am not one to discuss politics either. What do you want to talk about here?
Thanks pretzel for your comments and words. I appreciate all you've said and it really helps to know that I'm not alone in my struggles. I commend you on your strength and ability to make your decisions. Yes, it's very difficult and agonizing. They say when you doubt that's when you really know you believe. So I know I believe but it's the figuring out if LLC is the correct choice for me or not. So many signs point to "no" and I'll have you know that just typing that hurts and confuses my heart. Such scary things I need to think about. It's so odd in a way to know that you went to the same church as I did because it would be so wrong to discuss the idea of leaving it. But here we are. I am happy for you that you've found a church and still have your faith. Everything you in your comment hits home to me. I will continue to work this through and I will pray that God will help me.
Also, thanks to who gave the website extoots, I will check it out. And also, my point was not to be political in any way. I'm not even sure what is meant by that. I was just stating my struggles. I apologize if it wasn't the right things I said. Take care
truth: I dont think the political comment was meant for you at all. The other website that typically focuses on religion and spiritual discussions has more recently been discussing politics instead.
You are in my prayers truth. If you ever need to talk or have questions, feel free and let me know. I can give you an email address. Good luck!
Giving up a church is not giving up your faith. ie...leaving the LLC does not mean you give up your faith. Faith does not exist in a building. It exists in your heart and you do not need to walk into a LLC church to have faith.
Anon, you and I know that, but the LLC does not. They believe they are the only true Christians, if you decide you don't want to be a part of them anymore, you will be accused of giving up faith. Your right, faith is in your heart and God promises to never leave us or forsake us if we seek him. A building is just a place to worship him. I think it's important to find a healthy church family to worship with however. Knowing the red flags of unhealthy churches is helpful. You pretty much have to learn things all over after you leave if you choose to go to another church. Unfortunately many people give up on church. I did for many years, had no interest in going there and while I believed God existed, I didn't have faith in him. Theres a difference.
Sad to see how Satan has such a stronghold on their minds.
Thanks pretzel it's good to know you're here. If I ever get all my thoughts in order I'll let you know. It helps to have people to talk with!
Hello, Is anybody here?????
No posts in a loooooong time!!!!!
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