New post under an old topic

A very insightful post came recently under a January topic. I wanted to paste it up front to share it with those interested.

The peace of God be with you all.

"Anonymous said...
I am a member of the ALC, (not the old or first). I followed a link that led me to a discussion on the forgiveness of sins. I'd like to make a comment on it. But I'm not sure if I should first paste the section I read that I'd like to comment on. I'm gonna try it here:

On the positive side, being in the OALC gave me the ability to feel sorrow for my sins. I don't know if I'd have that same ability to really examine my conscience without my experience in the OALC. The hardest part about leaving for me was (and continues to be) the void I feel when it comes to "forgiveness". Intellectually, I understand and believe that I can pray to God directly for forgiveness when I sin and He hears and forgives. I believe Jesus paid the full price on the cross for me. But part of me still longs for the opportunity each week to go to my loved ones and "ask forgiveness". I'm perfectly aware that I can still do that, and should, if my conscience is troubling me. But having that time set aside each week where I could regularly go to my family and admit my faults/sins was humbling and helpful. On the up side, instead of saving up the list in my head of what I've done wrong until Sunday, I am more apt to pray to God right away when I'm aware of my sin and say I'm sorry to someone if I treated them badly or was a bad example. I do believe my conscience is much quicker to respond since I left the OALC, so hopefully I'm a little less likely to be a "repeat offender" on some things.I don't believe I've lost the "forgiveness of sins" since leaving, as those in the OALC would say. Losing the "forgiveness of sins" is why people stay even though they're pretty sure there's a lot about the church that just isn't right. But I have lost that time each week where I was kind of forced to examine my conscience and go to my family to admit and "unload". We have a prayer during the service at my current church, admitting our sinfulness (both sins we are aware of and those we aren't), and the pastor forgives our sins in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I think I might feel the weight of my sinfulness a little differently than most of those at the service because of my OALC time. But part of me might always kind of miss that part of the OALC. Will that make me return? NO. There's just too much that's not right to go back for the one part that was good. I believe it is good to have the time set aside to examine the conscience, feel sorrow for the sinfulness, and hear the assurance of His forgiveness. But the bulk of the service should be worshipping Him and hearing and learning His Word (not to be confused with Laestadius' words).

Okay, I think that worked. I havent ever done this so I hope this isnt too long.Anyway, I pasted the above section from a link you had and I find it interesting because the church I am in also has a tremendous emphasis on the teaching of the forgiveness of sins. I just want to point out that all of the comments made above seem to indicate that you are still sort of confused about this subject of our sins and our conscience. I personally had a turmoil over this very thing. But when I came to faith in the work of the Lord Jesus I found that I was growing in the reassurance that my salvation is sure because God's word is sure.I used this format of the forgiveness of sins less and it seemed to sort of linger in the back of my mind as a unanswered question as to what the meaning of it is.I always defended the teaching of this as the way to be released and reassured of the sins on our conscience. But it seemed to me as I read the Word more, to contradict the scriptures regarding faith and the very words spoken by Christ on the cross: "it is finished". He said this regarding the Forgiveness of sins and the work he had accomplished in behalf of it.I struggled with a lot of the scriptures and thoughts that seemed to lead me to letting go of this idea that Apostolic Lutherans have something special, something that those in the group I'm in, call a 'priviledge'. This also led me to realize that if we have something special or a little bonus package of some sort that other denominations are excluded from, then that elevates us and makes us superior to them. That didnt seem like the right way to think at all. Then I came to realize that even though I was not under the bondage I had been in the past, I still was holding onto this as a denominational pride thing and I didnt want to let down the forfathers and the whole Lastadian movement and the whole thing about this special teaching so I thought I should do my part and keep it going by teaching it to my kids when they were like 10 or 11. So, there I went, trying to gently teach them the beauty in something I did not understand at all. I knew I didnt want to get them under bondage like I was as a kid to it, so I only rarely spoke of it and mostly when I just wanted to be forgiven for being an impatient mom. Well, I never really felt right, something always sort of nagged at me thru that but I put it out of my mind and took comfort in the fact that I was being a good Apostolic Lutheran and doing what my parents and relatives would be proud of by cherishing the tradition passed on to us.One day, a friend of mine suggested that, for the sake of people to grow in GRACE we should let all the garble and confusion and pride of this teaching go. That scared me to death but I knew it was true.It took me 3 years to agree. The devil was in that act or format so strongly EVEN THO I HARDLY EVER USED IT. I remind you, I had already had a transforming experience in FAITH years and years before this. But it was like God wanted to lead me to this hidden little issue tucked away that I only wrestled with on rare occasions. But I always just crossed the questions out.As I read your comments and the entire posting on this page I see that our churches are not so different from each other. The emphasis by some in my group is tremendous and they always back this up by saying it is healthy and good to be reassured of your forgiveness.Well, I dare to differ. Because God has taken me to a place far superior than that teaching has ever been capable of in my walk of faith and growing in him to know his heart.I have read the Bible thoroughly and find it both addictive and praise worthy and glorious. I didnt use to think this way. I used to be confused by it. But by God's grace I have learned the art of studying it and using the cross references and tools and God has opened it to me in marvelous ways. I can only say to you dear ones who posted these comments, that Our God is so good, that according to Hebrews 10 he has set up the only system that will ever work to forgive sins and that is by Christ being in the ultimate Holy of Holies as the ultimate high priest offering the only worthy blood that can deliver us all to God. He ever lives to intercede for us and it is the climax and fulfillment of the system of the Old covenant to remove sins. It is now a LIVING covenant and God wants us to believe that what he did there worked and satisfied him in this area of humanity. It even goes on to say there that he removed sins forever and that the Holy Spirit has been given as a reassurance to our hearts, specifically speaking this: that our sins and iniquities will be remembered once a week? NOT. Once a month? NOT. Go there and look how often our sins will be remembered by God. Why do you feel like you have to tell God your sorry for your sins? He does not see you in your sins even when you see yourself there. He is beholding the face of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth standing there like a courtroom judge, being an advocate for our every move, and covering everything in his blood. Our greatest sin against God is not those we name as we look at our pathetic selves. It is this: that we do not believe God did a good enough job. This is something the whole Christian Church kingdom struggles with. By nature we want to pay for our sins and by conscience we hope to set the record straight. But we do not live by conscience. We live by faith. It is a grave mistake to try to live by conscience. It is a lie because if you go by conscience then you better see a lot more than a few rotten tomatoes. You best die. Then, in that case you will be in the truth. Isaiah 51:1 says if we are following after righteousness we will always remember two things... the sinful pit from where we were dug out of and our salvation. The sorriest thing that ever happened to the Lastadian movement was when they made this forgiveness of sins teaching into a boxed format; the here's how, thing and here's what you say and here's what you do. That robs the spirit of God from working because it puts man seeking to be right with God. WE ALREADY are right with God. Because of Jesus, not because of this reassurance act that everyone in all the Lastadian movements are gathered around and proud of. This has absolutely become an idol and high tower for our people. We are all shining this golden calf. It is time to recognize it for what it is and truly pray and ask God to shed his light into this thing the devil has destroyed. Am I saying it has never served a good purpose? no. I am saying it stunts peoples growth in Christ. It keeps them checking for more spots on their conscience and the spots dont go away. If you sin a big sin or give into something you knew you shouldnt have, then all I can say is that is why Jesus went to the cross. If you are in faith, then you will see that. If you are feeling like this teaching helps you see that then your faith is in the teaching of this act. That means Jesus, who is supposed to be the author and finisher of our faith is actually separate from this teaching. Because the very person of Jesus Christ is the forgiveness of our sins. If we have to get that reassurance from another person, then why do we have the Holy Spirit? This is the very core of FAITH. To know your sins are forgiven! and to know God is seeing you IN CHRIST. What else do we need?Psalms 103 says bless the Lord oh my soul AND FORGET NOT HIS BENEFITS. That is a commandment. DONT FORGET THE BENEFITS then it lists those benefits. the first one is the forgiveness of your sins. Go read the rest. When ever you struggle with sin, go read that Psalm and Hebrews whole book and dont let Satan in when you read. He'll have you running like a headless chicken to get yourself right when you see some of those verses. But when you read with the Spirit of God, you will see how they should be interpreted and you will begin to see that sin is from the BETRAYAL of God's son, the wicked JUDAS betrayal of disowning God and his work for salvation and relying instead on Satan's idea of how one rids oneself of sin. Through this tactic that brings no peace! We dont have peace if we are worrying about how we should receive this Lastadious blessing, or when we've last heard it or that it has its purpose. Please forgive my wordiness here. I am going on and on. But I am adamant about this and I wish I could tell you how much God has opened to me the teaching of the laying on of hands and the meaning of it and also of the broad road to destruction which is self righteousness and the spiritual adultery which is self righteousness and the whore in the book of Proverbs and Revelations which is the self righteousness that we all have in our flesh. This is the big contest. Will God save, or will we try to help? Read Isaiah 58 and see how much God wants you to be sorry in your sack cloth and ashes. He is sick of it. He wants us to see what He has done for us! When you read Is.58 put Jesus in at the latter half of the chapter every time it says the word: SABBATH. Becaues he has announced that he is our sabbath. I emphasize, that we all have a Judas in our flesh, ready and willing to betray our Lord with a kiss, but God has OVERCOME him/us on the cross and as we grow in faith we will see more and more how our flesh is an enemy of the cross. This is because we want to charge people for righteousness. We arent naturally prone to free grace. We want to charge and not waste the substance of the gospel. That is the lie satan sold to Adam and Eve in the garden. He made them religiously try to cover their sin and it still didnt work when God's presence came. they were still afraid. Are you?Do you feel spotty and sinful, like you should ask for something so you can hear those blessed words? If so, Hebrews 12 might be a help to you. It says lay aside every weight and sin that easily besets us.. so we can run the race, but we never get to the answer in the next verse. Go and look at how the weights and sins dissipate and who's glorious name just swallows it all away. Be free from this. Read the life of Hezekiah. His people were very attached to the brazen serpent that moses held up in the wilderness. this brass thing that was held up actually was CHRIST in form to them and by looking at it they were saved from their sin. But by Hezekiah's time 400 some odd years later, they were worshiping the BRAZEN serpent because it was something their forefathers used to be forgiven from sin. Go and see what Hezekiah saw and how he at 25 years old couldnt stand to see his people burning incense (which means to worship) to that thing. He went into the church and SMASHED it to pieces. then called it a piece of brass. It says he did so clinging to the Lord and doing it for the sake of his people to be in relationship with God not some format or thing.I believe it is time for us to have this courage over our Lastadian teaching on forgiveness of sins. It is time for people to quit going to each other to ask forgiveness like this and call it our word of reassurance. If you can ever find a time when the disciples had asking forgiveness sessions please let me know. To be sorry to someone is a whole different matter, but I dont believe this format is the way to approach this. too many people are abusing it by hurting others and then going and getting this crazy method out to cover it up, only to do their dead deeds again. It is faith that will deliver us and the holy spirit is wonderfully faithful in doing its job to remind us and teach us of what Christ has accomplished especially for us. Exercise yourself unto godliness means BEGIN listening to the comfort of the Holy Spirit. It takes effor and exercise in the beginning to hear the sweet voice of the Holy Spirit over the loud condemnation in our minds. But when you exercise yourself toward GOD, it is there you will find exhilarating peace and rest for your souls. This stuff about having that momentary fluffy high you feel when you ask forgiveness has to go. That is a false trap set up by satan to keep you in a system that he loves to control. I wish I had the time and space to share the laying on of hands with you but I have long overspent my welcome and I lovingly want to reassure you that it is truly something you should allow God to stir up in you about this Lastadian teaching. My mom even asked when my sister left our church to a non denominational church, she said, how are they gonna have their sins forgiven. What a clever satan. He actually has people thinking that sins are not forgiven. What on earth was easter and christmas for?What was the whole old Testament setting up of the law for? it was to forgive sins. The details of the old temple are now all found in the new temple which houses the Spirit of the Living God. We are now a spiritual tabernacle wandering thru this wilderness and the offering for sin is finished. We're on the rejoicing side until we cross the finish line into our true promise land. Halleluia and Worthy is the Lamb who has taken away the sins of the world. Now, please, next time you think of going to your relatives or an "AP-er" to do this thing.. go instead and do what Christ has commissioned us to do and tell people everywhere that SINS ARE FORGIVEN. this is the news that we spread. NOT "are my sins forgiven? Can you remind me?" but rather, THEY ARE, have you heard the great news!!! and when we preach repentance Hebrews 6 will tell you it simply the foundation by which we have turned to God in faith and belived our sins forgiven, now we will leave that and GROW upwards in knowledge of him and in perfection which means learning more and more that HE IS OUR PERFECTION!I find it peculiar that no one is asking forgiveness for being self righteous. That is actually what Hebrews is referring to, that we repent from our dead works and turn in FAITH to God. That is the foundation that holds the basic principle of the doctrine but we are warned there not to make a religion out of HOW, but to grow in relationship with HIM. NOt laying again the foundation over and over and over. That makes no sense, when will the house of faith come to flourish? The Hebrew writer well knew how much the human nature is attracted to systems fo religion.I will now sign off. Thank you for hearing me out and I pray God will bless this sight and that more and more people will see the light.I feel tremedously blessed to see the work God is doing among your people and am happy to report that we too have a revival of hearts toward faith in our church as well.Praise God!
Lovingly, In christ,
His bride with you.
2:26 AM

sisterinchrist said...
did my post come through?
2:44 AM

Left the OALC said...
Yes, your post came through. It was very thoughtful and insightful, so I want to paste it to the most recent so others will see it.God Bless!
9:23 PM "