A fresh start

The Interesting Conversation post has gotten many replies, and is now quite lengthy to read through. I wanted to move a few posts to a new thread, and see where it takes us. There had been several exchanges between current and ex-oalcers; and I'm happy to say that it didn't seem to end in anyone going away angry...

A current OALCer stated at one point:

"When persecution comes, watch who is being persecuted.God is not angry at His children, He's angry at those who, no matter how much He tries to remind them of their sins, continue to praise and honor other gods. God WILL NOT be merciful to those souls."

and:

" The reason I say that God is not that merciful is because I get the feeling that some people say they worship God, yet are subconsciously worshipping their own deeds. They talk as though they are the nicest, kindest, most thoughtful people and that because of their goodness, God will save them. God wants man to feel like a wretch, to understand the pain and suffering He put His own son through because of man's sin. As I read some of these, it seems as though because Jesus already dies for our sins, man doesn't have to worry about it anymore. Maybe that's how some believe. I don't know."

One ex-oalcer posted:

"Here's the thing about becoming a Christian. You don't really get it until you realize it's not about YOU anymore, it's about HIM. You don't spend all your time on Sunday wallowing around in your guilt and feeling wretched; HE told you he paid it all, and you have to believe Him. That doesn't give you some license to go out and purposely sin. How on earth would that be helping to bring more people to Him? Clearly, that makes no sense, and we must strive to stop sinning. But we will fail, despite all efforts otherwise. This is not to say that repentance and absolution are not important and necessary. It just shouldn't be the entire focus of your service and doctrine.

The OALC service is all about searching for and maintaining your own soul's salvation by seeing your wretchedness and sinfulness, asking forgivenesss, and working harder to avoid sinning again. Obviously, part of a Christian walk must be to try to not sin. But HE has told us over and over, that no matter how hard we try, we will ALWAYS end up failing. Not that we should ever stop trying to live up to His flawless example.

We will never have cried enough and have tried hard enough, to merit salvation. Realizing your wretchedness and bringing you to repentance should NOT be the sole purpose of your church service. Certainly it is an important part. But if you don't walk out of that service with the determination to go spread the Good News about Jesus to those who don't know it yet, you are failing in your Christian duty. Then it's just about you-- worrying about "am I saved?" As long as you believe in Him, He's told you "yes you are-- now go tell more people about me so they can be saved, too!"

Though I know this point of view will probably draw some self righteous OALC rage on myself, I have to say that the OALCers and their services are at the very core, selfish.

I know it sounds totally absurd to say that these people, willing to give up so many earthly pleasures, could be labeled such. But I am referring to their church services and their lives-- all focused on their own salvation, focused on avoiding the world and its temptations. As if huddling together in their protected little world can somehow save them...

If Christ were to be angry, as the OALCer above states, what does it really make sense for the anger to be for? He told us He paid the price for our sins, that not one of us could ever have done it on our own, and to go make more disciples. So will His anger &/or judgment be on those who say "THANK YOU" for my totally undeserved, unearned or merited gift and who go out and try to help spread His Word... or on those who huddle together, not spreading His Word, love, and JOY outside their congregation? (The Parable of the Talents in Matthew addresses this).

My hope and prayer is that it will be on neither, and that we can all learn to love each other and not have this fear of judgment day forever threatened on those that choose to leave the OALC.

Most every conversation between OALCers and EXes always ends with the OALCer trying to say that you left salvation behind you when you left the OALC. Yet they never take the time to read the Bible and find the many places that would help them to see that they are wrong. They stand by what is preached rather than what is written in the Bible.

On judgment day, I believe I know which He'll be going by.

God's peace and Christian love to you ALL."

Thanks for the article, BH

Following is a post from Breathlessly His.

God's Peace , Love, and Blessings to you all.




Dear "left the OALC"..There is a website called "watchman.org" which is actually a referral by Beth Moore's living proof site. It is very informative and may be of interest to you or your readers... anyway I ran across this article about "recognizing spritual abuse" and thought it was very encouraging and enlightening. I thought I would paste it here and maybe you could move it to a new discussion page... It's an extensive article but I think your readers will relate in a big way...If you prefer not to have this here than you can delete this post. I will not be offended! You are the host!!

COMMON CHARACTERISTICS OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE

#1) Authoritarian

The most distinctive characteristic of a spiritually abusive religious system, or leader, is the over-emphasis on authority. Because a group claims to have been established by God Himself the leaders in this system claim the right to command their followers.This authority supposedly comes from the position they occupy. In Matthew 23:1-2 Jesus said the Scribes and Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat," a position of spiritual authority. Many names are used but in the abusive system this is a position of power, not moral authority. The assumption is that God operates among His people through a hierarchy, or "chain of command." In this abusive system unconditional submission is often called a "covering," or "umbrella of protection" which will provide some spiritual blessing to those who fully submit. Followers may be told that God will bless their submission even if the leadship is wrong. It is not their place to judge or correct the leadership - God will see to that.


#2) Image Conscious

The abusive religious system is scrupulous to maintain an image of righteousness. The organization's history is often misrepresented in the effort to demonstrate the organization's special relationship to God. The mistaken judgements and character flaws of its leaders are denied or covered up in order to validate their authority. Impossibly high legalistic standards of thought and behavior may be imposed on the members. Their failure to live up to these standards is a constant reminder of the follower's inferiority to his leaders, and the necessity of submission to them. Abusive religion is, at heart, legalism.Abusive religion is also paranoid. Because the truth about the abusive religious system would be quickly rejected if recognized, outsiders are shown only a positive image of the group. This is rationalized by assuming that the religion would not be understood by "worldly" people; therefore they have no right to know. This attitude leads to members being secretive about some doctrines and the inner policies and proceedures of the group. Leaders, especially, will keep secrets from their members. This secrecy is rooted in a basic distrust of others because the belief system is false and can not stand scrutiny.


#3) Suppresses Criticism

Because the religious system is not based on the truth it cannot allow questions, dissent, or open discussions about issues. The person who dissents becomes the problem rather than the issue he raised. The truth about any issue is settled and handed down from the top of the hierarchy. Questioning anything is considered a challenge to authority. Thinking for oneself is suppressed by pointing out that it leads to doubts. This is portrayed as unbelief in God and His anointed leaders. Thus the follower controls his own thoughts by fear of doubting God.


#4) Perfectionistic

A most natural assumption is that a person does not get something for nothing. Apart from the express declarations of salvation by grace through faith God has given in the scriptures, it would be natural to think that one must earn salvation, or at least work to keep it. Thus, in abusive religions all blessings come through performance of spiritual requirements. Failure is strongly condemned so there is only one alternative, perfection. So long as he thinks he is succeeding in his observation of the rules, the follower typically exhibits pride, elitism, and arrogance. However, when reality and failure eventually set in, the result is the person experiences spiritual burnout, or even shipwreck of his faith. Those who fail in their efforts are labeled as apostates, weak, or some other such term so that they can be discarded by the system.


#5) Unbalanced

Abusive religions must distinguish themselves from all other religions so they can claim to be distinctive and therefore special to God. This is usually done by majoring on minor issues such as prophecy, carrying biblical law to extremes, or using strange methods of biblical interpretation. The imbalanced spiritual hobby-horse thus produced represents unique knowledge or practices which seem to validate the group's claim to special status with God.



BIBLICAL RESPONSE

Examples of spiritual abuse are found throughout the Bible. God describes (and condemns) the "shepherds of Israel" who feed themselves rather than the flock, who do not heal those who are hurting, or seek to bring back those who were driven away but rather discard them, ruling with force and cruelty (Ezekiel 34:1-10). Jesus reacted with anger against the thievery of the money changers in the Temple as they misused God's people for selfish reasons (Matthew 21:12-13; Mark 11:15-18; Luke 19:45-47; John 2:13-16). He was angry at those more concerned with rules and regulations than with human suffering (Mark 3:1-5). In Matthew 23, Jesus describes the abusive spiritual leader in great detail. In John 9 the Pharisees "cast out" the man born blind simply because the truth he told about his healing exposed their own corruption. In Acts 7:51-56, Stephen called the Jewish leaders to account over their spiritual abuse. His testimony of Christ vindicated Jesus, whom they had abused, and condemned them. The legalistic Jews were so angry they stoned Stephen to death. In Galatians Paul addressed a performance based Christianity which leads to the abuse of legalism. There are many more such examples.As God in human flesh, Jesus had legitimate spiritual authority. But He did not exercise it to gain power for Himself, or to abuse and control others with rules and regulations. He said, "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28). The Greek word for "heavy laden" is phortizo which means here "to overburden with ceremony (or spiritual anxiety)" (Strong's Concordance #5412). Jesus gave a balanced perspective on positional authority when he said, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren" (Matthew 23:8). He gave another key to discernment when He taught, "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory..." (John 7:18a). Jesus was not "image conscious." He was willing to associate with wine drinkers, cheating tax collectors and even prostitutes. He accused the legalistic Pharisees of "teaching for doctrine the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9) and likened their showy, hypocritical outward rightousness to "whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness" (Matthew 23:27).Neither was He paranoid. His ministry was conspicuously open to the public. When He was on trial (John 18) He was asked about His teachings and His reply was, "Why askest thou me?" Jesus pointed out that He always taught in public, and never in secret, so why not ask His disciples. He had nothing to hide.Jesus did not fear to criticize the religious leaders or their faulty doctrines (e.g. Matthew 15:1-9; 23:1-39, etc.). And when confronted with criticism or with treacherous questions designed to discredit Him, His response was never to simply demand silence or only positive recognition from His accusers. Rather, He gave answers - scriptural and reasonable answers - to their objections (e.g. Luke 7:36-47; Matthew 19:3-9).Jesus upheld the high standard of the Law, yet He clearly placed the legitimate needs of people before any rules or regulations (Matthew 12:1-13; Mark 2:23-3:5). The scriptures make it clear that no one will cease to sin in this life (Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). Jesus made it plain, however, that one can know in this life that one has eternal life (John 5:24; 6:37-40), a theme developed by Paul throughout his epistles, and by John (1 John 5:10-13).The Pharisees, quintessential spiritually abusive leaders, were quite unbalanced in their perception of what mattered most to God. Jesus said they, "...pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, - judgment, mercy, and faith...." (Matthew 23:23).


EFFECTS OF SPIRITUAL ABUSE:

Spiritual abuse has a devastating effect on people. A very high level of trust is often placed in spiritual leaders. It is, and ought to be, expected that the trust will be honored and guarded. When such trust is violated the wound is very deep. Sometimes the wound is so deep that the wounded person cannot trust even a legitimate spiritual authority again.An analogous situation exists with the victims of incest. The emotional and psychological symptoms exhibited by victims of incest parallel those of spiritual abuse to a remarkable degree. The main symptom is the inability to relate normally to people who represent the source of their emotional injury.Besides an unhealthy fear of, and disillusionment with, spiritual authorities, the spiritually abused person may find it difficult to trust even God. "How could (or why did) He let this happen to me?" Anger is also deeply felt. Anger itself is not always wrong - God Himself expresses anger at such spiritual abuse (see Biblical Response, above). However, even legitimate anger, if not properly channeled and dealt with, can degenerate into bitterness and cynicism toward everything spiritual.RECOVERY FROM SPIRITUAL ABUSE:Healthy recovery from spiritual abuse must begin with understanding what has happened and how. A victim usually thinks he is the only one experiencing these problems. Just being able to give a name to the problem is important. There are many books on the subject (see Resources, below) that will be helpful in learning about spiritual abuse and recovery.Afterward the abused person must learn the true nature of God's grace, love and forgiveness. This is the foundation for being able to eventually forgive the abuser. Being able to share the experience and what has been learned so as to minister to someone else's need is also very important. This could be done in a support group made up of people with a similar experience who can share the healing love of Christ.Finally, a lot of time must be allowed for full recovery.-----------------------------------

Posted by breathlessly His at 2/03/2006 11:21:26 PM